OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[2000m2]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Tesla just laid off most of their Supercharger team https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/30/2...nacs-elon-musk

Puzzling, since the lack of charging infrastructure is a primary reason people don't want to buy EV's. Maybe ELON thinks Tesla has already done enough in this area and it's time for other companies to step up.

Meanwhile, “Tesla superchargers in California now available for all electric vehicles”
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...count=Nw%3D%3D

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

This feels close to the truth for me. If the disruptor brain thinks everyone else is getting into its game, it goes looking for a new game ("robotaxis").

I'm humored by how close he thinks he is, and how terrible FSD is in the real world.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

I'm humored by how close he thinks he is, and how terrible FSD is in the real world.

I saw a description of a lot of development efforts, including FSD: "we didn't start working on this because we knew how to do it, we started working on it because we thought it was easy." That's also why there have been so many failed startups that thought they could make a bicycle power meter.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

As a rental in Oregon this past weekend I had a Jeep 4xe Grand Cherokee.

Absolutely loved it.

Also love the concept. Plug in hybrid, with really slick integration. Really smooth, good power application.

Would be perfect for my wife. Haul the kids to local stuff, do shopping, local errands all on electric.

Absolutely perfect as a long haul ICE vehicle.

Not a true EV obviously, but probably worth a look for some folks in the middle.

Not keen to buy anything 'Jeep', but I think this is where this segment will 'quietly' emerge as a big part of car sales..hybrids. All the convenience of ICE with the advantage of 'all electric' if ya want it...so you still look cool and 'progressive' to the neighbors. If I need another car before I go south, a hybrid is what I will be looking for.

[rwsaunders]

There was an article posted in the NYT (excerpt below) yesterday that compared the shortcomings of the Cybertruck to Musk’s current challenges at running Tesla among other things. The dismissal of the Supercharger staff sounds an alarm. I mean really, their charging infrastructure is one of the key selling points for buying a Tesla and if their infrastructure expansion grinds to a halt, ***?

“ He’s a Silicon Valley creature in a Detroit ecosystem who values innovation for its own sake, even at times when he could be more focused on safety and quality. His ethos and approach to running Tesla are embodied by his pet project, the Cybertruck. Though it fits the technical definition of a truck (it has a bed), the vehicle looks more like an origami version of an El Camino. The consequences may be negligible if the product is an entertainment app, but with cars and rockets, the stakes are terrifyingly high. Tesla gives the impression that it accepts certain risks as the price of innovation.”

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Not keen to buy anything 'Jeep'

Ha, yeah, just had to rent a Cherokee for a few weeks last fall, and it wound up on the side of the road waiting for a tow due to, har har, electric failure.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

There was an article posted in the NYT (excerpt below) yesterday that compared the shortcomings of the Cybertruck to Musk’s current challenges at running Tesla among other things. The dismissal of the Supercharger staff sounds an alarm. I mean really, their charging infrastructure is one of the key selling points for buying a Tesla and if their infrastructure expansion grinds to a halt, ***?

“ He’s a Silicon Valley creature in a Detroit ecosystem who values innovation for its own sake, even at times when he could be more focused on safety and quality. His ethos and approach to running Tesla are embodied by his pet project, the Cybertruck. Though it fits the technical definition of a truck (it has a bed), the vehicle looks more like an origami version of an El Camino. The consequences may be negligible if the product is an entertainment app, but with cars and rockets, the stakes are terrifyingly high. Tesla gives the impression that it accepts certain risks as the price of innovation.”

Let's not insult the El Camino.

We need trillions of public funds to get this thing going. Much improved grid and charging stations everywhere. You know, like our highway system, airports and FAA, and earlier, trains. I don't see it happening at all. Our leaders just spent six months arguing over more war, and nothing else. This needs adults managing. Where are they?

[benb]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I saw a description of a lot of development efforts, including FSD: "we didn't start working on this because we knew how to do it, we started working on it because we thought it was easy." That's also why there have been so many failed startups that thought they could make a bicycle power meter.

I don't know where that description came from but there is a balance in high tech R&D.

You need a certain amount of that "it's easy" attitude to actually have the audacity to attack problems and have a chance of success. People with that attitude tend to have success in early stage startups.

But IME later on as a product matures and gets more complex that has to moderate, because the "it's easy" attitude often leads to oversimplified designs/approaches that break down or don't scale as time goes on.

But you can go too far the other way, and you see this with overly conservative attitudes as companies get bigger and more entrenched. Then you get people who are constantly telling management everything is "hard" and inflating estimates and over engineering everything. It leads to paralysis by analysis instead of "just do it".

But Tesla really does seem to be going off the rails at this point. Something is really weird, and it seems Musk is way too motivated to get his gigantic compensation package even if he damages the company. In the past he seemed to throw himself in and sacrifice himself, now it seems it's all about him.

You see some of the jumps other manufacturers are making and Tesla really seems to be losing it's early lead. And as soon as they lose that, their other quirks start to be less forgiveable (e.x build quality, difficulty getting repairs, weird UI, FSD issues.)

Some of this "it's easy" arrogance is vaguely similar to mental traits elite athletes need to have.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by 2000m2

Meanwhile, “Tesla superchargers in California now available for all electric vehicles”
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...count=Ng%3D%3D

Dead link. Are all Superchargers available to all or only a subset? I don't own a Tesla, but the thought of having to wait in line to charge my car because non-Teslas are using the Superchargers would be something that I would be resentful about if I owned a Tesla.

[kppolich]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

I'm humored by how close he thinks he is, and how terrible FSD is in the real world.

Man I couldn't disagree more. I've clicked just over 5,000 miles on my Model 3 with FSD and not one issue. It's almost cheating for any drive over an hour at this point. Just keep a hand on the wheel and it does the rest. It corners better than me, at speed, with traffic on both sides and is more attentive than I could ever be with things happening in front and behind me while driving.

Maybe parking lots and city streets are the cause of most of the FSD issues, but that takes into account a lot of erratic human behavior around you too. Jaywalking, multiple turn lanes, curbed lanes, tight entries to parking lots, etc.

[2000m2]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Dead link. Are all Superchargers available to all or only a subset? I don't own a Tesla, but the thought of having to wait in line to charge my car because non-Teslas are using the Superchargers would be something that I would be resentful about if I owned a Tesla.

Updated the link, sorry about that.
"Tesla is opening its supercharging network to all electric vehicles in California."

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Maybe parking lots and city streets are the cause of most of the FSD issues, but that takes into account a lot of erratic human behavior around you too. Jaywalking, multiple turn lanes, curbed lanes, tight entries to parking lots, etc.

As with most things, 80/20 rule.

80% of it is easy, 20% of it is hard.
80% of it works well, 20% doesn't.


When you are running a robotaxi, you don't have someone to intervene when it clobbers a curb or a pedestrian. That's not just something you brush off as an acceptable risk.

[mpken]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Man I couldn't disagree more. I've clicked just over 5,000 miles on my Model 3 with FSD and not one issue. It's almost cheating for any drive over an hour at this point. Just keep a hand on the wheel and it does the rest. It corners better than me, at speed, with traffic on both sides and is more attentive than I could ever be with things happening in front and behind me while driving.

Maybe parking lots and city streets are the cause of most of the FSD issues, but that takes into account a lot of erratic human behavior around you too. Jaywalking, multiple turn lanes, curbed lanes, tight entries to parking lots, etc.

I had the same experience with a friend's service loaner. Surprisingly good driving on SoCal freeways. On one trip, FSD navigated entering the freeway, make 4 freeway transitions, exit and drive the streets home without the expected butt pucker. Another evening trip in light rain across 3 different freeways was something I didn't think was possible with significant intervention. FSD makes road trips a breeze. Street driving definitely isn't FSD's strong suit.

[verticaldoug]

Rescinding offers to college interns weeks before start seems pretty stupid. It doesn't save you any real money, and burns the little bit of goodwill you have remaining.

[Kirk007]

There's now a cybertruck in my neighborhood. It is so much ulgier in person than in photos, I mean it makes the Gremlin look like something designed by Leonardo DaVinci.

I have nothing against electric cars, having owned two and now a hybrid, but never a Tesla. I want a car from a car company.