OT: 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Jaybee]

Heard this on Zach Lowe's podcast, repeating here because I agree with it:

If you want to compete with the Nuggets in the playoffs, you won't get there with defense. There is no answer for Jokic, no one player that slows him down, no bruiser you can burn fouls on like early 2000s Shaq, no double or help scheme you throw at him that doesn't turn into an open three for one of Denver's shooters. He's seen all of the supposed best defenders at the 5 and made them all look silly in playoff situations. Bam, AD, Gobert. Ayton got played off the floor.

So you've got to make him work on his defensive end, and you do that by spacing the floor and putting him in PNR. To that end, Boston, Milwaukee and Phoenix all made really good moves to be able to go 5-out and put the ball in dependable hands when it matters. You beat Denver by making Jokic chase Lillard over the top of screens or space out to Porzingis or Brad Beal shooting a 3 instead of Chris Paul shooting a 2.

More specifically for the Celtics discussion - KP belongs in a potential Boston-Denver finals. Marcus Smart does a lot of good things, but he's not helping you beat Denver, even if he does a great job on Jamal Murray.

[schwa86]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Yes - Smart was a vocal leader - strong presence in the locker room and played great D.
But last nite Porzingis has a really nice game on both sides of the ball - Knicks were pretty ineffective in the paint - C's being able to go with 2 bigs is an added dimension.

I am broadly a pro-Marcus fan, but I think Holiday is an upgrade offensively, and gives up nothing defensively. His vocal leadership sometimes was in conflict with his ability. There was a reason he was open for all those 3s.

Similarly Porzingis is a huge upgrade over Williams offensively, and I think defense remains to be seen. Not sure you are giving up anything health wise, given Rob’s injury history. So for me it comes down to how much you lost trading Brogdan and Grant Williams. Suspect the Brogdan trade opens opportunities for D White and Pritchard, and though I generally liked everything about Grant other than the constant whining at officials, I think he’s replaceable.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by schwa86

I am broadly a pro-Marcus fan, but I think Holiday is an upgrade offensively, and gives up nothing defensively. His vocal leadership sometimes was in conflict with his ability. There was a reason he was open for all those 3s.

Similarly Porzingis is a huge upgrade over Williams offensively, and I think defense remains to be seen. Not sure you are giving up anything health wise, given Rob’s injury history. So for me it comes down to how much you lost trading Brogdan and Grant Williams. Suspect the Brogdan trade opens opportunities for D White and Pritchard, and though I generally liked everything about Grant other than the constant whining at officials, I think he’s replaceable.

G. Williams was good - serviceable but replaceable. Agree with the whining - did Tatum learn it from him or was it the other way around.
GW will need time to settle in - watched him the other nite and he was lost - struggled with a new system.
I liked Brogdon - made some big plays for the C's (6th man award) - still making them - dropped 20 on LA - guess his arm/elbow is fine.
But I think Holiday is a better.
After all is said and done I believe the C's are now a better team.

[XXtwindad]

Wemby went for 21 and 12 (in 31 minutes) in the Spurs win. Impressive. But not as impressive as someone I’d never heard of: Houston’s Alperen Şengün. 25/14/7. Wow. That’s quite a line. Is this guy legit?

[XXtwindad]

Thoughts on watching the Dubs beat OKC 142-139 last night.

Steph hit the game winning shot and continues to be a national treasure. What an ageless wonder.

Chet Holmgren is legit. I always thought he had a whiff of the “Great White Hype” to him and he looks like a really tall, skinny Shaggy from Scooby Do. But he has great handles, moves fluidly, and can shoot the three. Might give Wemby a real run for the ROY.

OKC is a great young team. They scored 140 without SGA, who is a bona fide Top Ten player. Giddey and Dort can really ball. They’re on the cusp of something special.

Finally, what’s with this “in season tourney?” I don’t get it. Seems really gimmicky.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Thoughts on watching the Dubs beat OKC 142-139 last night.

Steph hit the game winning shot and continues to be a national treasure. What an ageless wonder.

Chet Holmgren is legit. I always thought he had a whiff of the “Great White Hype” to him and he looks like a really tall, skinny Shaggy from Scooby Do. But he has great handles, moves fluidly, and can shoot the three. Might give Wemby a real run for the ROY.

OKC is a great young team. They scored 140 without SGA, who is a bona fide Top Ten player. Giddey and Dort can really ball. They’re on the cusp of something special.

Finally, what’s with this “in season tourney?” I don’t get it. Seems really gimmicky.

Yeah I was solidly in the “Chet Doubter” camp, thinking that his ceiling, if lucky would be Porzingis-like (but hey Zinger hasn’t been so bad recently) but he has done well. I only watched a little bit of their game against the Pelicans a couple nights ago; thought his defense was suspect but definitely looked good on the offensive end.

I think the point of the in season tourney is to inject some life into the November/December portion of the season. People point to the European leagues as the model but those are inter league (Champions League, Europa League, etc) so I don’t get the comparison but my understanding is there are cash payments to the winning team so there is that motivating factor. Also not sure if there are implications for playoff seeding.

[username]

The in-season tournament is intended, as Spaghetti Legs said, to increase interest in games during what's otherwise a lackluster part of the season. Adam Silver has a television rights deal to negotiate, and he's looking for any added leverage he can get.

As for Sengun, he's a good passer with genuinely great footwork and a soft touch. He's been very iffy defensively, but he's young, so there's time for him to learn. He seems very game, which is a good—and relatively rare—thing in a big man. Until now, it's been hard to tell much of anything about him on the Rockets, because they've been so terrible. But with Udoka on the bench, I expect Sengun will either defend or sit.

[klasse]

Sengun is a good talent, don't know much about him but saw him play vs. Lakers last year. Speaking of.....the XMAS day game BOS @LA will be nice. I watched Lillard shoot 3s during warmups at preseason game in LA. It's unbelievable how effortlessly he flips the ball from 30' out. (I know other guys do it about as well as he does, but I was really amazed to see him shoot.)

Wemby is ROY barring injury (or some other player I don't yet know about). It's rare to see a #1 pick come in and light things up right out of the gate. Somehow Spurs lost to Toronto today. They were up 15 going into the 4Q at home.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by schwa86

I am broadly a pro-Marcus fan, but I think Holiday is an upgrade offensively, and gives up nothing defensively. His vocal leadership sometimes was in conflict with his ability. There was a reason he was open for all those 3s.

Similarly Porzingis is a huge upgrade over Williams offensively, and I think defense remains to be seen. Not sure you are giving up anything health wise, given Rob’s injury history. So for me it comes down to how much you lost trading Brogdan and Grant Williams. Suspect the Brogdan trade opens opportunities for D White and Pritchard, and though I generally liked everything about Grant other than the constant whining at officials, I think he’s replaceable.

Unfortunately you were right - he injured his knee in the game against the Grizzlies - will require surgery.

[XXtwindad]

Anyone watching?

Just saw the Nuggets and TWolves last night. I had the Nuggets winning the whole enchilada again. But they encountered a luminous, transcendent talent named Anthony Edwards. I was a little dubious about all the accolades and hosannas being tossed his way. (“Best two way player in NBA” said Reggie Miller)

I mean c’mon the kid is only 22, and the Jordan comparisons are endless.

After watching him for a full game, I’m going to say the comparisons are legit. Ridiculous athleticism. Fire. Hustle. Charisma to burn. And, if anything, probably a better team leader than MJ in the long run, who always referred to his teammates as his “supporting cast.”

The future is here.

[boomforeal]

Twolves vs. Nuggets started the second round off with a bang. If Murray can find his legs I think this is going to be a great series.

[theboucher]

Playoffs have been good so far! We'll see how the round two match ups shake out. I'm a Cs fan, but enjoying watching Edwards play

[p nut]

Yesterday’s game was good one. Twolves are just exciting to watch. Can’t help but like Ant Edwards. So talented.

I just hope the Nuggets don’t win. Cannot stand Jokic.

[bironi]

I only watch this time of year, but that Wolves/Nuggets game was so good.
I watched it twice.
That tech call on Edwards was beyond belief, the NBA rescinded it today.
Murray should have received a tech for his obnoxious back spin shooting hand pistols at his defender.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I’ve been watching as much as my 10pm eastern bedtime will allow. Knicks- Sixers was great. I only caught the end of Nuggets- Wolves games but Nuggets looked flummoxed and I thought maybe Jokic looked gassed; then again he always looks a little like that.

The individual heroics are an official ushering out of the previous generation of stars and replacing with Brunson, Maxey, Banchero, SGA, Edwards.

I’m not leaving out Jokic, he’s a class to himself. I’m curious to see what happens with Cleveland after Mitchell has reasserted himself as a ball dominant scorer. I don’t think they’ll be as good as a team, esp against Boston.