OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[paredown]

Originally Posted by C50

This article is almost 2 years old ....

https://medium.com/@briankent/the-re...t-c6dc1decf75d

Great rant--I did not know about the "travel" rules that give extra credits to established car makers for every vehicle they sell in CA. What a boondoggle--I now understand why the Fiat 500e is a CA/OR only vehicle...

[benb]

Originally Posted by paredown

Great rant--I did not know about the "travel" rules that give extra credits to established car makers for every vehicle they sell in CA. What a boondoggle--I now understand why the Fiat 500e is a CA/OR only vehicle...

Yah that article on medium about the travel credits is fascinating.

I was rooting for the Bolt when it came out but it's so weird how GM clearly doesn't want to sell it. Without ever reading about it I got the feeling that was going on when I went to try and see if I could get a Bolt test drive.

The thing with the Volt is super weird too cause most people seem to love the Volt so it was really weird they cancelled it, the Bolt certainly doesn't 100% replace it.

I wouldn't have much worries about a Tesla or other EV I think. I see tons and tons of Teslas ever day, too many to count, they have become incredibly common here. I've never seen one broken down.

I've seen a lot of Gasoline powered cars burning into the ground too so it's mostly delusional to think that's only a risk with EVs.. I've seen multiple Audis burning to the frame, Jeeps, Honda CRV, Chevy full size Van. Still super rare considering the # of years I've been driving.

Realistically if I tried to guess what vehicles I see broken down the most on the side of the road or being loaded onto flatbeds on the highway without signs of crashes it's high end German cars that look pretty new by a huge margin. Mercedes-Benz for sure would be what I think I've seen most frequently broken down.

[nickl]

Originally Posted by paredown

Great rant--I did not know about the "travel" rules that give extra credits to established car makers for every vehicle they sell in CA. What a boondoggle--I now understand why the Fiat 500e is a CA/OR only vehicle...

The main reason that the 500e was only sold in a few states was that FCA stated they lost money on every one sold. Of course without making a major commitment to EV production this was inevitable due to the economies of scale.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by nickl

The main reason that the 500e was only sold in a few states was that FCA stated they lost money on every one sold. Of course without making a major commitment to EV production this was inevitable due to the economies of scale.

Agreed--but as that article was clear about was that their (and other established brands') sales in California had a multiplier effect in reducing their total fleet mileage to meet EPA standards--sell one car, get the equivalent improvement in your total MPG numbers as if you had sold six cars--truly crazy.

So only sell the cars where they would give you that multiplier effect, minimize your out of pocket losses and don't make a real commitment to EV production. But you had to take a hit because you needed to reduce your average gas mileage/production with EV credits.

Same for Chevy--it is a kind of corporate greenwashing made possible by stupid rules that favor established car companies over real EV producers like Tesla.

[mt2u77]

I think an EV would work well for my 2 car family, and I fully expect to get one when my current commuting vehicle wears out. We have a mini-van for kid / cargo hauling, road trips, and my wife's short commute. I have a compact car for my 40 mile round-trip commute, which I do about half the time by bike 8 months of the year. The compact car only leaves EV range a handful of times a year, and I could usually swap cars if needed.

Thread drift, but the carbon footprint of a single trans-Pacific flight (which I'm asked to do for work far too often) is about as much as I create in the rest of the year combined. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to reduce my driving footprint, but certainly the low hanging fruit in my life is convincing my business leaders that we could replace one face-to-face with a video conference or have one less person in the room. It's insane how many people my company flies around.

[redir]

Originally Posted by mt2u77

I think an EV would work well for my 2 car family, and I fully expect to get one when my current commuting vehicle wears out. We have a mini-van for kid / cargo hauling, road trips, and my wife's short commute. I have a compact car for my 40 mile round-trip commute, which I do about half the time by bike 8 months of the year. The compact car only leaves EV range a handful of times a year, and I could usually swap cars if needed.

Thread drift, but the carbon footprint of a single trans-Pacific flight (which I'm asked to do for work far too often) is about as much as I create in the rest of the year combined. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to reduce my driving footprint, but certainly the low hanging fruit in my life is convincing my business leaders that we could replace one face-to-face with a video conference or have one less person in the room. It's insane how many people my company flies around.

Yup it's crazy. I used to work on developing virtual worlds for that, and other, reasons. There is no reason why people cannot meet in virtual spaces and get work done from all locations around the world.

[oldpotatoe]

If you want your kids/grandkids to have an inhabitable planet, stop eating meat and drinking milk - or drastically reduce your consumption of it. It's that simple.

If it were only that simple. Having 10% of the human population do the above(700 MILLION people, twice the population of the US), stop eating meat or drinking milk..would that make a difference? Probably but trying to make the the world population to stop eating meat and drinking milk...I guess gotta start somewhere but when you see the 2 BIG population centers, India and China, not really into the game of not eating meat and drinking milk..well...

The majority of meats consumed in India are fish, bovine, mutton, goat, pig, and poultry. In Indian context, culture, traditions, customs, and taboos influence meat consumption to a great extent. However, studies show that urbanization has been causing a rise in demand for meat products. India is the world’s second largest exporter of beef.

Humans thrive and react based on threats, crisis, emergencies. I agree with EVERYTHING said, re: climate change and how humans are causing it but I'm also very pessimistic..look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the halls of congress. It's gonna be Soylent Green or a world wide pandemic(reducing population in a BIG way) before the human population as a whole gets off their meat consuming, gas driving collective butts.

And much of the naysaying is clearly
fossil fuel company propaganda
I urge you to join the rest of the globe
and the 21st Century!!!

I urge to take a look at the 'rest of the globe'....most of the 'globe' are far below the US/Europe/Parts of Asia in terms of financial flexibility and ability to not eat mean, drink milk or buy an EV car.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by redir

I still don't see EV's as a better way forward for the environment. Where's all the power going to come from? Batteries are not exactly environmentally friendly either. I mean EV's certainly help but it would be better if people just stopped driving all together. There is a lot of promise in the future of nuclear energy especially in with Traveling-Wave Reactors.

Gonna need some serious infrastructure for EVs.
Power generation and a way to transport it.

I think we're seeing some grasping at straws by people who believe in magical central planning over market forces. They remind me of people starting a small business but who have no customers and no plan to get any. Or even a business plan.

That said, I'd have an electric car if infrastructure was in place and 100% functional. (as long as I also had an IC car for trips and back up)

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Gonna need some serious infrastructure for EVs.
Power generation and a way to transport it.

I think we're seeing some grasping at straws by people who believe in magical central planning over market forces. They remind me of people starting a small business but who have no customers and no plan to get any. Or even a business plan.

That said, I'd have an electric car if infrastructure was in place and 100% functional. (as long as I also had an IC car for trips and back up)

And store it if the 'grid' is wind, solar only. I know that's unlikely as the grid will be a 'mix', including natural gas, for a long time to come.

I think the ingenuity of the human race can solve most problems.

But not until the 'human race' is forced to...as in, some crisis or another. Climate change is a good example. I guess when the mid west looks like a 21st century dust bowl and the coasts, Florida are mostly underwater...

[verticaldoug]

The Vision EQXX from Mercedes reached 700 miles on a charge. It will not come to production but the technology will trickle down into the existing lineups of Mercedes EQs quite quickly.

Swedish Iron Ore Miner KLAB has announced a large discovery of Rare Earths in Lapland. It'll take 10 years or so to develop, but it will happen.

I think the ingenuity of the human race can solve most problems.

Whether we can solve this one, or we are just glorified bacteria in a large petri dish, only time will tell..... thinking it's a 50/50 proposition or a lot less of us will make the journey.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

And store it if the 'grid' is wind, solar only. I know that's unlikely as the grid will be a 'mix', including natural gas, for a long time to come.


But not until the 'human race' is forced to...as in, some crisis or another. Climate change is a good example. I guess when the mid west looks like a 21st century dust bowl and the coasts, Florida are mostly underwater...

People who complain that the electric grid can't handle EV proliferation forget that the introduction of the electric refrigerator put a load on the grid like never before and air conditioning was MUCH worse for grids. The grid WILL adapt because there is money to be made. Frankly, we need to completely remake the whole grid anyway. We need a smart grid to withstand a mass solar ejection. If a big enough solar storm hit today, it might be several YEARS before we could repair the millions of exploded transformers.

My focus is not toward just climate change, but the fact that our current energy focus is unsustainable. If you give a damn about future generations, we HAVE to change.

[weaponsgrade]

Tesla just cut the price of the Model Y:

https://tinyurl.com/mrkd27t6

As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week shuttling kids to/from school and their activities. I have a 2009 CRV in good working condition (needs new tires soon) and a GX460 as a weekender. $50k+ buys a lot of gas.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

Tesla just cut the price of the Model Y:

https://tinyurl.com/mrkd27t6

As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week shuttling kids to/from school and their activities. I have a 2009 CRV in good working condition (needs new tires soon) and a GX460 as a weekender. $50k+ buys a lot of gas.

Plug in hybrid might be the way to go for you.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

(...) As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week (...)

That's 2,000 miles a year. I do 1,100 miles a year myself. There's no rush.

These are the early days of electric vehicles. You can now buy vehicles that will travel over 500 miles on a single charge, and it will probably be possible to travel 800-1,000 miles on a single charge before the end of the decade.

The electric vehicles for sale now will not be worth much in that world. It makes no sense to buy an electric vehicle now unless one has a present need for it.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

Tesla just cut the price of the Model Y:

https://tinyurl.com/mrkd27t6

As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week shuttling kids to/from school and their activities. I have a 2009 CRV in good working condition (needs new tires soon) and a GX460 as a weekender. $50k+ buys a lot of gas.

For environmental impact, your CRV has already been built and only impacts the environment with fuel and exhaust. It seems it would make sense to drive it until it wears out before replacing it with an electric or hybrid that would have to be manufactured.

To build hybrids, plug-ins, and purely electric vehicles requires materials and energy. Does it make sense to replace a perfectly good small car with a new hybrid? Many taxi companies chose to put close to a million miles on Crown Vics before replacing them with hybrids because it was cost effective to keep driving them. Using up existing assets before replacing them seems to be the responsible thing to do.